Kevin Warsh hearing takeaways: Trump Fed chair nominee defends finances, says president never demanded rate cuts

A theory has swirled for months that Trump's ultimate nominee for Fed chair may attempt to seize control of the institution by attempting to fire the presidents of the Fed's regional reserve banks. A rotating set of those bank presidents vote on monetary policy. Replacing them with loyalists could help Warsh get rates down faster.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester, D.-Del., tried to draw a commitment out of Warsh that he wouldn't attempt to do so. Warsh has often said he wants "regime change" at the Fed. Does that mean firing the regional Fed presidents? the senator asked.

"I mean policy regime change," Warsh said. 

— Matt Peterson

Sen. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., sharply questioned Warsh on his insistence that Trump has never demanded he cut interest rates.

"Someone here is lying then," Gallego said. "It's either you or President Trump."

Gallego then referenced The Wall Street Journal's reporting on Dec. 12 that Trump, during a 45-minute meeting with Warsh at the White House, pressed the nominee "on whether he could trust him to support interest rate cuts if he were chosen to lead the central bank."

The report cited unnamed people familiar with the meeting. But Trump, in a later interview with the Journal, "confirmed that reporting," according to the newspaper. 

Warsh "thinks you have to lower interest rates," Trump told the Journal. "And so does everybody else that I've talked to."

Warsh told Gallego that he recalled reading the story at the time and thought the Journal's reporters "either need better sources or better journalist standards."

But he said he did not ask for a correction at the time, and he did not address Trump's confirmation of the reporting to the Journal.

He instead reiterated, "the president never asked me to commit to interest rate cuts at any particular meeting over the period of my tenure at the Fed. He didn't ask for it. He didn't demand it. He didn't require it, and nor would I have ever done so."

— Kevin Breuninger

Warsh did not commit to maintaining the current practice of holding a news conference after every Federal Open Market Committee meeting.

"Right now, press conferences are held periodically. If you ask me my true personal opinion right now, Fed chairs and other central bankers around the FOMC, they speak quite frequently. There is no lack of transparency," he said. "But I would say this, I think truth-seeking is more important than repetition."

Former Chair Ben Bernanke began the process of meeting with the press quarterly. Current Chair Jerome Powell changed that to having a conference after each of the eight FOMC meetings.

— Jeff Cox

Warsh said he would like to see Fed officials stop making premature commentary on monetary policy, offering a glimpse into the culture he may try to set if confirmed to lead the central bank.

"Too many Fed officials, past and present, opine in advance about where they think interest rates should be next meeting, next quarter and next year," Warsh said. "I think that's quite unhelpful."

Warsh also said he would like to see "big, robust deliberation" at Fed policy meetings.

"I tend to favor messier meetings than some, where people don't show up with rehearsed scripts, but we can have a good family fight," Warsh said.

— Alex Harring

Under a different president, Warsh might have sailed through a confirmation hearing. Warsh in 2006 was confirmed as a governor unanimously, including with support from senators still on the Banking Committee today. He was even introduced in 2006 to the committee by Sen. Chuck Schumer, now the Senate Democratic leader, who praised Warsh's support for Fed independence. 

Today's hearing offered hints that Warsh could still win support from some Democrats. Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto, D.-Nev., offered some measured praise after Warsh said he wanted the Fed to rethink how it measures inflation. 

"I hope you're right" about the way inflation works, Cortez Masto said. "Listening to you today and talking with you, I respect you truly believe as an economist and a theorist in this theory," she said, though she noted other economists have disagreed with him. 

Sen. Mark Warner, D.-Va., isn't present for the hearing following a death in his family. He is also seen as a potential vote for Warsh.

Still, Warsh is closely tied to Trump. And no vote of any kind is likely until Tillis ends his blockade on the nomination over the DOJ investigation into Powell. No Democrats are likely to vote for Warsh until is clear that Republicans have enough votes to confirm him.

— Matt Peterson

Warsh said he would not take orders from Trump on monetary policy and never was asked to lower rates.

"The president never asked me to predetermine, commit, fix, decide on any interest rate decision in any of our discussions. Nor would I ever agree to do so," Warsh said under questioning from Sen. John Kennedy, R-La.

In a Tuesday morning interview with CNBC, Trump acknowledged he would be "disappointed" if a Warsh-led Fed did not deliver on lower rates.

Warsh's words left open the possibility that Trump discussed his demands for low interest rates, but didn't press Warsh for a specific timeline to make those cuts.

Warsh noted that most presidents prefer lower rates and he does not feel that elected leaders offering their opinions compromises central bank independence.

"I've heard many senators from this very committee in years past express strong views on interest rates. Humble central bankers should be listening and then making their own decisions," he said.

— Jeff Cox

Warsh said he would "absolutely not" be Trump's "sock puppet," a term Sen. Elizabeth Warren derisively used several times in the hearing.

"I'm honored the president nominated me for the position, and I'll be an independent actor if confirmed as chairman of the Federal Reserve," Warsh said.

— Alex Harring

Sen. Thom Tillis, who has vowed to hold up the nomination in committee over an investigation into current Chair Jerome Powell, said he otherwise supports Warsh as the next chair.

"Let's get rid get rid of this investigation, so I can support your confirmation," the North Carolina Republican said during Wash's confirmation hearing.

Jeanine Pirro, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, has tried to subpoena Powell but had the effort squashed in court. She has vowed to appeal, and Tillis said he won't let the nomination out of committee until the matter is resolved. Republicans hold a 12-10 advantage on the Senate Banking Committee, meaning one dissent would block the nomination.

"We have somebody who thinks a building project that went over by about $700 million with a lot of what seemed to be justifications for it are holding up this whole process," he said. "It sounds like to me, somebody over in the DOJ didn't even check with the boss."

— Jeff Cox

Warsh's financial disclosures show vast wealth but leave questions about his assets unanswered. Democrats are digging into that issue in their questioning of Warsh. 

His paperwork lists more than $100 million in holdings associated with his work for investor Stanley Druckenmiller. Warsh says in the filings that he is under a confidentiality agreement that prevents him from saying what is actually in those holdings, the largest of which are merely labelled "Juggernaut Fund."

The Office of Government Ethics said in a comment on his disclosure that Warsh isn't in compliance for those holdings, but will be once he divests them. 

The committee agreed at Warren's request to make a note of that compliance comment in the record. 

Republicans on the committee say Warsh is, in fact, in compliance with ethics requirements. "I checked with the staff to be absolutely certain he is properly before us," Tillis said. "He will be in compliance if he executes agreement."

The Office of Government Ethics previously declined to answer CNBC's questions about the agreement. 

"What I've disclosed, Senator, is all the information that is mine to disclose," Warsh told Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I.. "I agreed to divest virtually all of my financial assets, a large majority of which will be divested before I raised my right hand and sworn into office by this body."

— Matt Peterson

As Warren grilled Warsh on his independence from Trump, the nominee tried to lighten the mood with a joke.

"I do have a disagreement" with Trump, Warsh quipped. "I think even this morning, he said that he thought I was out of central casting. I think central casting, I'd look older, grayer, maybe show up here with a cigar of sorts."

Trump habitually refers to the appearances of his appointees as being straight out of central casting. It's a compliment from the president.

The line was met with one or two chuckles from the hearing room, which was at capacity.

"Adorable," Warren replied. "But you know, we need a Fed chair who is independent."

— Kevin Breuninger

Warsh declined to say Trump lost the 2020 election when Warren repeatedly asked him to confirm the results.

Trump has for years falsely insisted that his loss to former President Joe Biden in 2020 was "rigged."

"Independence takes courage," Warren said. "Let's check out your independence and your courage. We'll start easy, Mr. Warsh, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?"

Warsh replied that he tries to "keep politics" separate from the Fed. Warren said she was just asking a factual question. Warsh said the election results had been "certified," but did not say he believed that Trump had lost.

Warren began the line of questioning after noting that Trump has stated his expectation that "my guy" Warsh will quickly lower interest rates, as the president desires.

— Kevin Breuninger

Warsh said the Fed is still grappling with policy missteps during the Covid pandemic.

"After Covid, when prices went up to the tune of 25-to-35% for virtually all deciles of the American people, that's an indication that the Fed missed its mark," Warsh said. "We are still dealing with the legacy of the policy errors in 2021 and 2022."

— Alex Harring

The Fed needs major changes to avoid the recent mistakes it has made on inflation, Warsh said in the early stages of his confirmation hearing.

"Once you let inflation take hold in the economy, it's more expensive and harder to bring it down, and so the fatal policy error going back four or five years is still a legacy that we're dealing with," he said. "I think that means a regime change in the conduct of policy. I think that means a different, new inflation framework."

Along with using interest rates and the Fed's balance sheet to address inflation, Warsh also advocated a change in communications.

— Jeff Cox

Senators are staking out Warsh's experience during the 2007-2008 financial crisis as a key battleground. As Warren pointed out, Warsh served at the Fed "before, during, and after the crash." 

The Fed's interventions to stabilize the markets were central to ending the panic that overtook the financial system. But the longer-term consequences of that history are hotly contested. Warsh himself has criticized some aspects of the Fed's response. 

It is indisputable that Warsh played a central role in the Fed's response. As a Fed governor he became a crucial aide to Chair Ben Bernanke. "Kevin Warsh, with his many Wall Street and political contacts and his knowledge of practical finance," was regularly by the chair's side, Bernanke wrote in his crisis memoir.

Warren has argued that the Fed — with Warsh in a top decision-making spot — helped Wall Street firms more than the broad public. 

Warsh has signaled he will push back on that criticism. Sen. David McCormick, R.-Pa., mentioned in introducing Warsh to the committee that he worked at the Treasury Department during the crisis. "Chairman Ben Bernanke relied heavily on Kevin during those times, and I did too."

Warsh is likely to mount an aggressive defense of his history if challenged during senators questioning. 

— Matt Peterson

Warsh's insistence that there's no threat to Fed independence from elected officials stating their views on interest rates understates the challenge that the Trump administration has posed to the central bank's long-standing separation from the executive branch.

"I do not believe the operational independence of monetary policy is particularly threatened when elected officials — presidents, senators, or members of the House — state their views on interest rates," Warsh said in his prepared opening remarks before the Banking Committee.

Beyond Trump's constant, harsh attacks on Powell and the Fed for not lowering rates, the president has often threatened to fire Powell — and he has attempted to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook.

A key question to Warsh would probe his views on the Cook firing and whether he believes the president can fire the Fed chair.

— Steve Liesman and Kevin Breuninger

— Kevin Breuninger

Lawmakers held a moment of silence during the hearing for the family of Sen. Mark Warner, a member of the Banking Committee.

The Virginia Democrat's daughter, Madison, died after struggling with juvenile diabetes and other health issues, Warner's announced Monday. She was 36.

Warner is not attending the hearing.

— Alex Harring

Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., opened Tuesday's confirmation hearing by laying out the economic challenges facing Americans. Scott emphasized how policy decisions made by the Fed can affect everything from grocery bills to homeownership.

But Scott's speech appears to conflict with Warsh's remarks that the Fed "must stay in its lane" delivered ahead of the hearing. Warsh reiterated a common critique that the Fed has branched beyond its primary focus of monetary policy in recent years by looking at themes like climate change or social equality.

"Fed independence is placed at greatest risk when it strays into fiscal and social policies where it has neither authority nor expertise," Warsh said.

— Alex Harring

Warren tore into Warsh and Trump in her opening remarks.

She blamed Trump for "one economic failure after another." She slammed him for trying to tear down the Fed's wall of independence from the executive branch, claiming he is doing so because "he wants the Fed to use monetary policies to artificially juice the economy in the short term" before the midterm elections.

Warsh, she said, "is uniquely ill-suited for the job as Fed chair."

She called him "an enthusiastic cheerleader for credit default swaps and complex securitizations" prior to the 2008 financial crisis.

"We should not be having this hearing today," she said.

— Kevin Breuninger

Warsh has heavy investments in cryptocurrencies stretching across dozens of companies in his vast portfolio.

Regulatory filings show the nominee has holdings across the decentralized finance universe, though the size of the investments is unclear.

Among Warsh's interests include stakes in Solana, Lemon Cash and Flashnet, along with an assortment of other funds with crypto exposure. Fed trading rules prohibit officials from holding large crypto positions.

— Jeff Cox

Panelists on the Banking Committee will get just one chance to question Warsh, Sen. Elizabeth Warren said.

She added that she had asked for two rounds of questioning.

— Kevin Breuninger

Banking Committee Democrats will ask Warsh about his ties to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, ranking member Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., told reporters outside the hearing room just before the hearing began.

"As you know, Mr. Warsh's name appears in the publicly disclosed Epstein files," Warren said.

"Obviously, there's a lot more that the Department of Justice has not exposed, but even in those [files] there are questions that arise about his business dealings and whether there are entanglements between Mr. Warsh and Mr. Epstein on business activities," she said.

— Kevin Breuninger

Warsh has previously said he wants "regime change" at the Fed. It'll be interesting to see if he uses that term today, or tones down the extent of the changes he wants to make in front of senators.

It's worth pointing out that much of what Warsh wants to do at the Fed will require approval of his new colleagues.

Lowering interest rates, reducing the balance sheet and having a Treasury-Fed accord would all need approval from the Federal Open Market Committee. For bank deregulation, Warsh will need the OK from the Fed's Board of Governors.

— Steve Liesman and Alex Harring

Sen. Dave McCormick, R-Pa., will introduce Warsh at the hearing.

McCormick, a Banking Committee member, told CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Tuesday before the hearing that he expected it to "go well." Warsh has experience both within and outside of the Fed, in addition to an understanding of investing and financial markets, McCormick said.

"President Trump made a great choice," McCormick said. "I think that's going to be clear to the members of the committee this morning."

McCormick was CEO of Bridgewater Associates, a hedge fund giant.

— Emily Wilkins, Alex Harring

A Warsh-led Fed would likely mean lower interest rates, a lighter regulatory touch and a smaller balance sheet.

Publicly, Warsh has largely held to the belief that the Fed has room to ease monetary policy, though he has not restated that position since the Iran war began nearly two months ago. He has been a long-time advocate of the central bank having a smaller imprint in the bond market, though he has been less vocal around the vagaries of bank regulation.

Trump, who nominated Warsh for the position, told CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Tuesday that he would be disappointed if Warsh doesn't lower rates.

— Jeff Cox

Warsh, 56, is an Ivy League-educated lawyer who's worked in finance, politics and monetary policy.

The Albany, New York, native is a graduate of Stanford University and Harvard Law School. Warsh worked at Morgan Stanley before joining the Bush White House.

Warsh served as a member of the Fed's Board of Governors from 2006 to 2011. He managed venture capital investments within the technology industry for investor Stanley Druckenmiller, a role that helped make him worth at least $135 million.

— Alex Harring

The Banking Committee is not voting on Warsh's nomination at Tuesday's hearing, and it hasn't yet said when the vote will take place.

That scheduling decision could depend on what happens next in the Department of Justice's ongoing criminal investigation of Powell, the man Warsh would succeed. Trump said Tuesday in an interview on CNBC's "Squawk Box" that he's not asking the DOJ to end the probe.

Federal District Court Judge James Boasberg last month blocked the DOJ from issuing subpoenas related to the Powell probe, stymying the effort being led by U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro, a staunch Trump ally.

Then, on April 3, Boasberg denied Pirro's motion for him to reconsider the ruling, starting a 30-day countdown clock for the government to file a notice of appeal, according to the DOJ manual.

That essentially means Pirro has until May 3 to decide whether to continue her probe.

Why this matters: If the Banking Committee tries to advance Warsh while the Powell probe remains active, Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C., has vowed to block his nomination.

The Banking Committee could therefore be in a holding pattern until early May, or at least until the DOJ's next steps become clear.

What's more, the Senate is out the week of May 4, which could mean that the soonest vote on Warsh will take place the week of May 11.

— Kevin Breuninger and Emily Wilkins

The main obstacle blocking Trump's Fed nominee from sailing through the Senate is a member of the president's own party.

Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C., has vowed to block Warsh from advancing out of the Banking Committee unless the Department of Justice resolves its criminal investigation into Powell. Trump in an interview on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Tuesday before the hearing said he doesn't plan to drop it.

If Tillis sides with all Democrats on the panel in voting down Warsh's nomination, the committee will deadlock.

Powell says that while the DOJ probe ostensibly centers on costs related to the ongoing renovations of two Fed buildings in Washington, it is really intended to target him for his refusal to cut interest rates as much or as quickly as Trump has demanded.

Tillis has said he likes Warsh, insisting that his blockade is about keeping the Fed free from executive branch influence.

"I love the candidate," Tillis told reporters on Capitol Hill last week. "I won't spend my five minutes asking him about his credentials, because he has them. I'll spend five minutes talking about a bogus investigation that's going to cause me to vote no, unless they end the investigation."

Trump has repeatedly criticized Tillis, who has spoken more freely since announcing he plans to retire from the Senate after his term ends in January.

— Kevin Breuninger and Emily Wilkins

Warsh was spotted getting off an elevator and entering a Banking Committee office across from the hearing room.

He did not speak or answer questions before entering the office.

— Kevin Breuninger and Emily Wilkins

Trump, on CNBC's "Squawk Box" before the hearing, declined to say he'd approve an "off-ramp" that would allow the Justice Department to give up the Powell criminal probe and clear the way for Warsh's confirmation.

The president was asked if it would be possible for the Senate Banking Committee to take over the DOJ's investigation.

Trump replied that "we have to find out" about cost overruns associated with the Fed's ongoing renovations of its headquarters.

"I'm afraid Kevin will have to have an office next to me in the White House, because that building's not going to be done," Trump said of Warsh.

Trump added that he "can't imagine" Powell is "taking money on construction."

"But it's possible," he added.

— Kevin Breuninger

Trump said ahead of the confirmation hearing that he will be disappointed if Warsh doesn't cut interest rates "right away" after being confirmed as the next Fed chair.

"I would," Trump said when asked the question directly on CNBC's "Squawk Box."

— Kevin Breuninger

Senate Banking Chairman Scott preemptively criticized Democrats on his committee before the Warsh hearing, telling CNBC's "Squawk Box" that they will be overly focused on the nominee's wealth and politics instead of on Fed policy.

"What we won't see from the Democrats today is a conversation about the American dream, and why it's so important for us to talk about the balance sheet of the Fed, not the balance sheet of Kevin Warsh," Scott said.

"They'll spend too much time talking about his balance sheet and not enough time talking about the Fed's balance sheet," he said. "They'll spend too much time talking about politics and not enough time talking about an interest rate environment that is conducive for home ownership, starting a small business and making sure that the average person in this country has more money in the economy and less money parked on the sidelines."

— Kevin Breuninger

Scott, the Senate Banking chair, told CNBC's "Squawk Box" ahead of the hearing that Warsh will bring back an independent Fed, contending that the central bank's separation from executive-branch politics eroded during the Biden administration.

"Warsh is a guy who's battle-tested. He's ready for the job, and frankly, we are more likely to see more Americans experiencing their version of the American dream" with him in charge, Scott said.

"It's time for the Fed to get back to independence," the South Carolina Republican said. "Under Jay Powell and the Biden administration, we saw a lot of climate conversation and decisions that prioritize the climate. We want to prioritize every single kitchen table in America" by having a Fed chair who keeps everyday Americans "direct in mind."

— Kevin Breuninger

The Senate Banking Committee's hearing starts at 10 a.m. ET and is expected to last roughly two hours, though it could go shorter or longer.

Chairman Tim Scott, R-S.C., is expected to kick off the proceedings with remarks centered on how the Fed's decisions impact everyday Americans' finances.

He's also expected to emphasize the importance of maintaining the central bank's independence, allowing it to concentrate on its dual mission of creating price stability and full employment in the U.S.

Scott will be followed by remarks from ranking member Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., who has recently raised questions about aspects of Warsh's sprawling financial disclosures.

Warsh will then deliver his own opening remarks, which may deviate from the prepared statement obtained by CNBC on Monday.

Each of the Banking Committee's remaining 22 members — 12 Republicans and 10 Democrats — will get five minutes to question Warsh.

— Kevin Breuninger and Emily Wilkins